Just say no , they never fit . You will only be frustrated. Tell your customer if he wants it done correctly to pull the windows. These abs headliners were never designed to fit the existing trim. Especially with s customer trying to save money? It will be a loser.

There is absolutely no reason to pull the glass out of a car to install a suspended headliner. Removing the glass can only lead to more expense. If you need assistance on this project, call me.

Fred,
I am going to have to respectfully disagree on that one. The early Mustangs had the fabric wrap around the pinch weld on the front and rear. I am not saying it cannot be done, but to do it properly and be assured the headliner will stay put, the glass should be removed.

@Steve Ingram I understand what the factory did and why they did it that way, That doesn't mean that a headliner cannot be "correctly" or "properly" installed without removing the glass.

This topic gets debated all the time and I guess what I need to learn is why does the glass need to come out? I have done over a hundred Mustangs, and close to a thousand headliners in my career and I have never needed to have the glass removed. The headliner stays exactly where I glue it and I have never had a customer ask why the glass was not removed. Am I missing something?

Fred,

I spent most of my career in the Phoenix area. I attempted (in my early days) to install mustang headliners without removing the glass and just gluing up to the pinch weld. They held fine until the summer time. With the extreme heat the front and rear let go. I drew my conclusions from what I have experienced under the conditions the cars were exposed to. I am sure in more moderate climates the adhesive would hold up just fine.

Have to agree with Steve on this one. I spent the first part of my career in So Cal, and part of that in the Mojave Desert where temps regularly reach 120 in the summer. I too have installed well over 1,000 headliners in just about every kind of car. If it was designed to be wrapped around the pinch weld (Mustangs/Bugs), that's how I do it. All suspended headliners that are designed to be retained otherwise have a lock channel, barbs or both - with a few other strange designs thrown in - mostly by Germans. In extreme conditions, I don't really on chemical bonds, only mechanical bonds.

You and I have talked about this before, Fred, and your method works for you. You've told me the reasons you avoid window gaskets over your headliner, and they are plausible reasons. You've also ribbed me for not going to the great lengths that you do to restore something as it was originally designed, right? Bending edgewire to replace springs instead of replacing them with zigzag sound familiar? I've heard you say, "There are ten ways to do something, but only one of them is right." I do not question your expertise in the least. You are without a doubt at the top tier of skill in this trade. I'm just saying that I'm only comfortable doing Mustangs and Bugs by removing the glass because I've seen the same thing Steve has seen.

Oh - Natalie, I think you can see that there is more than one way to do a suspended headliner in an early Mustang. As for the replacement board type, that's your call. Some trimmers will do whatever the customer wants, others take a more authoritative approach and say they won't because it's not the right way. TMI obviously thinks it's OK, and they've done Mustang stuff almost as long as they've done VW stuff. I've never installed one of those, but I've used other 'alternate' headliner concepts from suppliers and was never really satisfied with the results.

@Jim Nishida-Adams

"There are ten ways to do something, but only one of them is right."

You forgot to finish my quote- "And it doesn't have to be the way I do it."
Thank you

inless there is an internal trim like a tri chevy I have always removed the glass . I find it makes it much easier and quicker to fit the headliner and only takes an extra 30 mins to remove and re fit the glass so worth it in the long run but then most cars I do with headlinings like that come to me already with no glass anyway which is even better ………….. if a car has glass in it but I can see that its been botched and full of silicone I tend to leave it in and give the customer the choice !!!!!!!!!!

Oops! I forgot that part, Fred ;-)

That reminds me of something else we've talked about that would be good to share. Even though we've both installed thousands of headliners, we both ask ourselves when we finish each job, "How could I have done that better?"

Wow! I guess I should get on here more often... lol. Didn't mean to cause a 'discussion'. I can see there are several ways to do things. The mustang headliners I've done before have already had the glass removed so it wasn't an issue. I would be interested in how to do them without removing the glass. We easily get to 110 days in the summer. I am supposing that this is an instance Fred, where you would do the glue like we talked on the phone yesterday? One layer each on the vinyl and metal, let it dry, then one more layer on the steel only and attach when tacky? Thank you all for your responses.

In my limited experience, I have not been happy with anything 'prefab' so to speak. It never fits right and requires quite a lot of time/adjusting to get it right, and is never worth what they think they are saving in the first place.